Tuesday, October 02, 2007

Tubular or not... that is the question

So I'm in the market for a spare rear wheel for the cross bike. While I'm not nearly good enough (yet) to justify not just walking off the course if I flat, I am stubborn and competitive enough to want to sprint to the pits, change a wheel, and get back at it. I'm going to get in the habit of bringing pit wheels, but as of right now the garage is showing 2 fronts and no rears. So then I got thinking... hey, if I'm buying a rear wheel anyways, would it be worth it to go tubular on the rear, use the rear clincher as the spare, and just keep the front clincher on. One cross friendly wheel/tire combo is better than nothing... right?

Now for those of you who might still be reading and have a) no idea what I'm talking about, and b) couldn't care even if you did, you must understand that these are the questions that bike racers, and cross racers specifically, love to obsess over. Hell G spent like 4 days talking about what kind of brakes were best... Combine and engineering/scientist type with a bike racer and you've got more material for obsessive conversations about details than you can ever imagine.

Anywho... so maybe sometime soon I'll have reason to learn to glue a tubular. We'll see where I go with that. First I have to buy a new light so I can survive riding to work and still have a reason to worry about this. Stupid short days...

19 comments:

gewilli said...

don't do it...

Just get another clincher - cheap ass Shimano wheel or something else strong...

better yet? need a rear wheel? Buy my Power Tap. THEN you can spend 6 months marveling at your power numbers and turn around and sell it to someone else later!

;)

trackrich said...

Do you really think I need numeric confirmation that I suck? I still barely do anything useful with my Polar HRM so I certainly don't need to keep track of my tens of watts...

Unfortunately even a basic 32-spoke Mavic rim clincher isn't so cheap-ass...

gewilli said...

i bought a set of CPX22 or 23 on some 105 hubs for $75

ya don't NEED Cosmic Carbones

trackrich said...

By the way... why was your instant reaction "don't do it"? Not worth the investment? Don't believe the hype? Trying to tell me I suck too bad to bother? Just curious... if you had the funds, would you be on tubies (ones properly glued of course)

solobreak said...

It's all about how much the money means to you. If you go with clinchers, my logic says don't buy a fancy wheel. A clincher wheel is more easily damaged if you ride it on a flat, especially by a big person. If you go with tubulars, this is not much of an issue. Even on a flat, you can ride back to the pit on most courses and your nice wheel will live to race another day. I'd go with Ksyrium tubulars. You can run lower pressure, and this will give you better traction, especially on tight grassy courses and off camber. They will also make the bike slightly lighter, but I don't think this is a big deal for you big guys. Each tire costs enough to pay for 18 holes with cart at a nice course. Your call.

Moveitfred said...

Golf?

You can't be serious.

trackrich said...

Hey, sucking at golf is a perfectly reasonable way to distract yourself from sucking at bike racing for a few hours. Except no carts unless forced... pretend it's exercise.

Solo got to probably the 2 things that will keep me from getting one in the end (intended reference to Solo's, um, issues)... the tire adds 50% to the cost of the setup and I can't afford a really good wheel so I'd just be getting an adequate one under the theory that ANY tubular setup should be better for cross (assuming intelligent tire choice).

solobreak said...

For the record I use massive, 20 year old Bianchi branded clinchers for training, rough race courses, or when I am just lazy. I also have a variety of old box section tubulars (GP4s and Victory Stradas) for racing. I've only used older Rhinos and newer Tufos ($35-50 range). Traction with these is so-so when inflated to the high 40's and much better when run in the 30s. Not sure about expensive tubulars, but look for tread that wraps around the side. Many don't. And I'm skeptical of anyone who talks of tires being "supple" when you're racing at 35 psi on grass and mud...

gewilli said...

Define if i had the cash?

I dunno. So many Elite guys race on clinchers, sure, most of the Sven types are running custom Racing Ralph tubulars ($175 each from FMB or even more if you have a Dugast connection) or what ever tread pattern they want.

There are many other things you can dump your cash into to get faster. Tubulars are great.

But i see so much made about them being "critical" in the race.

I find that to be complete horseshit. Tubulars won't make you any faster unless you are already at the elite level.

I propose a ban on tubulars used for anyone not a Cat 1 in cross.

Earn your fucking way up there. But then that's not popular. Only Cat 1s getting tubulars means all the rich fat fucks with over stuffed pockets of cash who want to race on the most expensive shit will bitch and moan.

Ooops sorry. Did i cross the PC line?

It is more prevalent in road racing. And yes, the tubulars will afford a small advantage.

But I think running a Michelin Vredistein, Schwable clincher will be much better than a crappy cheap tubular. And then you can EASILY have a spare set of wheels for the road bike if you want.

It is your money. you've gotta decide if you want to spend the family discretionary funds on tubulars.

i'd say no, not now. not worth it. after a handful of solid seasons of cross? yeah. When you are consistently in the top 10 of the 1,2,3 masters races? Definately get yourself a set of bubulars...

till then

juts ride your damn Moby Dick

solobreak said...

Fred, correct, you cannot be serious when playing golf. But don't try to make a sport out of it by walking either. It is a game, not a sport. Save your legs for the bike, never, ever, play golf without a cart, unless it's on the company-owned par 3 course where you play for free and they don't have carts... for this I make exceptions.

trackrich said...

I will ALWAYS applaude G for his passion on issues whether or not I agree with him :)

As of right now, if I flat, or worse, destroy a wheel on the cross bike, it becomes a giant white paperweight unless I decommission another bike and swap a 9-speed for a 10-speed so I'm definitely getting something. No I'm not worth nice stuff and I've even told people that recently... I get no more equipment upgrades until I do something useful with what I have. Until I do, I am the problem, not my bike. But since I'm buying anyways, tubular was an option. It is more money so I was deciding on the benefit. What I'm leaning towards is that it doesn't justify the cost.

And walking the course does make transporting your beer more difficult so maybe I'll have to concede that one...

gewilli said...

The PGA won't let ya ride in carts...

so in line of the emulation of the pro's with tubulars ...

you should NEVER

ride in a cart.

that's what the beer girls are for, THEY drive around in the cart bringing you over priced but cold beer with a nice view...

or so i've heard.

I've smashed a ball around on a course a total of one time...

All that can be asked is that you weigh your options yourself and make the best choice given your information, situation and projection.

Shimano can be 8-9-10 with one hub... how freaking nice is that?

I typically keep cassettes with a bike and move wheels around. Swapping a cassette is quick and simple work...

trackrich said...

I think I'm just going to go straight-pimpin and have a set of these wheels built.

solobreak said...

Hey Performance has Ksyrium tubulars for $560/set and today they are running the 20% off code, so that's less than $450 plus shipping. Not to pimp the cycling whorehouses or anything, but I don't think you'll do much better...

timsamsmom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
trackrich said...

You're killing me man... you going to glue the tires for me?

solobreak said...

Buy me a set too and I'll not only glue your tires, I'll buy your tires!

Considering everyone and their brother was buying these wheels at $850/set a few years back, that is pretty good though.

trackrich said...

Wait, if I counted right in the bike room pictures you've got about 40 wheels... why am I buying you new ones? :)

solobreak said...

At one time I think there were 68 wheels in here, but several of them made the trip to the left coast with my spouse... 40 sounds about right now. But the only pair of light, "modern" tubulars I have are my new carbon Bontragers, and they're not for cross...